Official Spokesman of Aguda Airs Thoughts on Secular Education

Here the esteemed spokesman of AM Echad and the American Agudah in Israel opines that it's not so terrible if our kids know the three R's.

But at the Aguda convention it could have been viewed as poison in milk - unless it was only rhetoric.

To the Seekers Among Us

Nothing is coincidence, though we can't always explain why.

The following, coincidence, however, I think I can explain. I need to post the clarification in red below, and I am.

A Rabbi in kiruv hitched a ride with me recently, and I had the Agudah blogosium CD playing in the car.

He mentioned that he had a person who he was working on drawing closer to yiddishkeit, until this individual discovered the Orthodox blogs ( I presume the expose' ones) and decided that it's no better here than anywhere else.

Let me inform this individual or anyone else looking into our world from the outside.

All Orthodox bloggers are firmly committed to normative orthodoxy. The question of whether a small percentage, probably far less than 1%, of Rabbis or Orthodox Jews did or did not commit wrongs does not push any blogger, or his children or his/her readers from our community, away from Sabbath Observance and adherence to halacha.

This is because the selfsame bloggers who criticize also know that it's far better here than elsewhere.

Bloggers are highly idealistic individuals volunteering their time to air issues, teach, learn and discuss. They are bothered by possible perceived issues around the edges of our community, not by the central themes of Judaism. The statistics bear out that our community is far above the norm in marital fidelity, honesty, and self fulfillment. Our children are more idealistic and serious than their peers outside. But even one problem is a problem we must confront in the view of bloggers. These possible issues do not, however, reflect on a community head and shoulders above all others in every important measure.

Yes, we have much work to do, and we discuss it. But there is also much work we do not have to do.

Please, for your own sake, don't miss the forest for the trees.

Quote of the Day

Great Contributions to Civilization Department:

The Secretary of Fatah in Gaza, Ahmed Hales Abu Maher, told PA TV on Nov. 14:

"This is a nation that gives an example every day that is imitated across the world. We gave the world the children of the RPG [rocket-propelled grenades], we gave the world the children stone [-throwers], and we gave the world the male and female martyrdom-seekers [suicide bombers]."

Rabbi Zwiebel at the Blogosium

Preface: We all realize the vital and self-sacrificing work Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel does for Agudas Yisroel and for all of us. The comments below are directed to his remarks at the blogging session, not to his sterling midos or his important accomplishments.

Rabbi Zwiebel laid out a cogent case for respect for chachamim and the difference between our halachos and libel and slander laws, etc.
One of his most telling points was the stark difference between secular law and Halacha. Secular law endorses character assassination when it is true, and, in the case of a public figure, even when it is not true but the writer could not have known it was not true.
Halacha, on the other hand, categorically prohibits true fact based character assassination - in fact this is specifically what loshon hora is.

Point well made.

Rabbi Zwiebel additionally noted that the 'best and the brightest' in his Torah Vodaath class, those with many more lucrative choices, became the Rebbeim, and he demanded (paraphrased) 'how dare we malign these idealistic and dedicated disseminators of Torah?'

I have a problem with this, and the problem is fact based. In Rabbi Zwiebel's time in Torah Vodaath there were options and choices. A decent Regents college prep program provided the opportunity, as he states, to become doctors and lawyers. Even Rabbi Wachsman took away from the Mesivta an excellent vocabulary and some secular interests. The yeshiva effectively provided the option of 'defying' Daas Torah by getting a post high school education and yet still serve klal yisroel and yiddishkeit. Those same alumni Rebbeim Rabbi Zwiebel refers to - many of them to be found in Emunas Yisroel, in Eretz Yisroel, and among the various chassidic and yeshivishe communities - do not generally provide their children with the range of options they themselves had.

Many of these children make do with an inferior 8th grade education at most (I have an urge to describe how very inferior, but I'll squelch my urge). Then after a few years in kolel, the poor fellow is forced accept a melamed position whether or not he's interested in teaching other peoples' children, and whether or not he can teach, because he is not qualified to do or learn anything else to support his family. Some are indeed interested in harbotzas haTorah, but after a few years they burn out, but are again trapped, frequently now struggling to support a family of twelve. Rabbi Zwiebel, this is a far cry from your fellow MTV alumni who chose chinuch over olom hazeh, and these misplaced or burnt out 'trapped' careers are not a rarity.

Is this not a breeding environment for frustration?

In his remarks, Rabbi Zwiebel quoted only one 'comment' (not even a posting) from a blog stating that 'the best part of blogging is the anonymity. You can shake a Rosh Yeshiva's hand by day, and then bash him by night'. He then commented acidly 'courageous souls'. Good example of the dedicated and knowledgeable blogging community, Rabbi Zwiebel? I think not.

Rabbi Zwiebel - since much of the session was dedicated to the evil of blog based character assassination, is it not self evident that the Lakewood, Satmar, Bobover, and legitimately questioning bloggers and commenters can and should remain anonymous - if not for themselves, then for their parents, spouses and children? Causing harm to these innocent bystanders is no different than causing harm to the innocent bystanders that Rabbi Solomon and the rest the Torah community strive so mightily to protect in other situations.

I would like to note at this point that although I continue to be anonymous, many of the 'best and brightest bloggers, such as Rabbi Gil Student, no longer are. They probably would have not begun to make what turned out to be a valuable contribution to the klal without the veil of anonymity. Moreover, many seforim in the past were also published with no name or a non de plume (including, if I recall accurately, Sefer Chofetz Chaim).

Since the issue of anonymity has arisen, I will dedicate a separate post to this subject in the future.

Rabbi Wachsman

Well, I must admit that I am impressed.

I do not know whether Rabbi Wachsman read my letter to him, or the other blog comments about him, but his tone was universally recognized to be drastically different from what we have seen from him in the past.

His speech, in my prior words, was 'tightly reasoned' in its logic (not necessarily saying I can at this point agree with all of it), which still leaves me somewhat awed at the change in style when contrasted with his past appearances.

I also sincerely want to compliment Mesivta Torah Vodaath for teaching Rav Wachman an excellent English, and imbuing him with the desire to (his own words) read about Einstein in the Bais Hakovod. Kein Yirbu.

Here are some points made at the convention by Rabbi Wachsman:

• We do not properly appreciate Gedolei Yisroel
• We are incapable of directly learning the Torah of previous generations without a contemporary interpreter, in other mesorah ( A rishon without mesorah is 'irrelevant')
• We cannot use an individual Godol's opinion to overturn the mass of opinions of Gedolei Yisroel
• Anyone can make himself look like a Talmid Chacham on a blog, but it takes a Talmid Chacham , and only a Talmid Chacham, to know one

Some of these opinions are obviously controversial (particularly the middle two). The manner in which they were expressed was also unbending. They were all at one end of the spectrum of opinion, not the middle. (Example: Rav Wachsman stated Gedolim are possessed of "flawless logic"(sic), for example. I didn't think that sort of phraseology applied to mortal man.) Nevertheless, they were made with intent to persuade, and persuade they did.

Rabbi Wachsman used the famous Sherut L'umi issue of the 1950's to illustrate necessary obeisance to Gedolim (paraphrased):

After what was viewed as a historic compromise allowing community service for girls in place of army service, the Chazon Ish torpedoed the compromise by paskening 'yeharog v'lo ya'avur' to Sherut L'umi. When asked by a Rov where it says that a person should let himself be killed for something which is apparently not one of the three cardinal sins, the Chazon Ish opened his over-garment, exposing the shirt over his heart and said "(it says it) here".

Okay, it's strong stuff. But Rav Wachsman was obviously attempting to explicate and explain, not bulldoze, a change in tone for him. And we free wheeling bloggers and readers should be able to handle logic even when it is not what we want to hear, right?

So what's Leapa's take?

1. Yes, it is halachically required to respect everyone, even more so Rabbonim, Talmidei Chachamim, and Gedolim. I, for one, will try harder.
2. While mesora is undoubtedly important, I cannot accept, that we cannot learn Rambam, for example, directly without it being filtered through Reb Chaim Brisker and Rav Aharon Kotler and Rav Aharon's einiklach. Rav Wachsman, you said we cannot understand and emulate a Godol of 60 or 70 years ago. Well, Rav Aharon, your prime example of a contemporary godol, is almost there !! Moreover, your proof from Choni Hamagil, that he asked for his life to be taken because he could not communicate with the third generation downstream, seems a tzurich iyun. Your conclusion will certainly lead to less Torah learned, if we cannot learn a blatt gemora or a Rishon without learning it through R Boruch Ber on the sugya. And Rav Wachsman, not everyone has the opportunity in life for a Rebbe Muvhak. Moreover, you know that there are contemporary Gedolim familiar with the same proofs you bring who have completely abolished shiurim for older bochurim, in the belief that they will have more success on their own.
3. Much of klal yisroel follows individual Gedolim and not the majority, and almost everyone does sometimes. We are not a religion or a people which takes polls to follow a majority, even of Gedolim. Do you feel all these yiden (almost none of whom are bloggers) are wrong? Furthermore, you propose that klal Yisroel has always followed the Gedolim 'elected' by other Gedolim. Is that historically accurate? How about the Baal Shem Tov, for example?
4. You are right about technology enabling one to look better than he is in Torah, but some talmidei chachamim have also grown in isolation from Gedolim for many years of their careers. Maybe even most. (The Chazon Ish is not a bad example.) Maybe a blogger (to my sorrow, not me) will be the next Godol to appear. As the NY Lottery ad says, you never know.

It seemed to me that the examples of Piskei Gedolim Rabbi Wachsman selected were all taken from periods of eis laasos, during or after historic upheavals when there was not time or opportunity to reason, or where the situation dictated urgent action.

Overall, I echo Hirhurim in my compliments to Agudath Israel of America for airing an important and controversial topic. I feel it could have been handled more positively, with concrete proposals.

Nevertheless, I feel it was an honest effort.

My comments on Rabbi Zwiebel and Rav Solomon to follow.

To hear R' Wachsman's speech: Call (718)906-6400 press 1 for english, 8 for Special Topics, 5 for Agudas Yisroel, 1 for convention, and 7 for Rabbi Wachsman.

Attention Hamodia & Yated!

The Wall Street Journal (subscription may be required):

"Various straws on the breeze . . . whisper that the day may soon be upon us when a significant newspaper abandons newsprint altogether, except perhaps for a commuter edition providing an abbreviated sample of the main product, to be found online."

Paysach Krohn and the Novominsker

I have heard that R' Paysach Krohn commented at the Agudah convention on the inevitability of internet penetration into our community and the necessity to make a positive, not a negative out of internet.

I also heard that the Novominsker Rebbe rebuked this notion sharply, and that R' Krohn apologized to him.

Has anyone heard either part (or both) of the this discussion?